Thread:Polandball & Mapping Slovenia/@comment-27681730-20170118191137/@comment-27381593-20170121090748

Genny bianco wrote: since when is "the mother didn't want him/her" a justification for abortion?

Oh I'm sorry, apparently you do not have a memory either, so if at any point you are confused because you forgot something, please go find what you forgot. I'm fine with it.

There are two things wrong with your point here. One is that just because "the mother didn't want him/her" is not a valid justification for abortion to you does not mean it is not a valid justification to other people. Two is that "the mother didn't want him/her" does not have to be a justification for abortion.

Here's a bombshell: there are people in this world who will disagree with your ideas. Another bombshell: a court pronounces an abortion as a murder, not you nor the Pope.

To prove the first point, I don't think abortion is murder, and you obviously do.

To prove the second point, if the judge or jury of a court decides abortion is not a murder, abortion is not a murder. And unless you are the judge or a jury member, your opinion doesn't mean anything. You can think abortion is literally the most awful crime a person can ever commit and it is automatically murder, but the court does not have to. Keeping up?

For abortion to be murder, all three requirements, unlawful killing, invalid justification/excuse, and malice aforethought must be fulfilled. If abortion does not meet even one of these requirements, it is not murder. So, the abortion can have an invalid justification/excuse and still not be a murder if either: abortion is legal, which it is in some jurisdictions, or the court decides it was not done with malice aforethought, and again, if you are not the judge or a jury member, bullocks to your opinion on that, or both abortion is legal and the court decides it was done without malice aforethought. Clear?

Stop trying to paint everything black and white, Genny. Abortions as a whole is not always murder, but abortions can still be murder. It all depends on the jurisdiction. So now we have established that abortion is not always murder, can we get back on topic...hmm, what was that anyway? All I get that is you think abortion should be illegal because it's killing babies and you think Slovenes are stupid because they legalize abortion, in which case you should look at these maps: https://www.womenonwaves.org/image/2013/4/11/screen_shot_2013_04_11_at_11_43_59_am.png%28mediaclass-base-page-main.d2c518cc99acd7f6b176d3cced63a653791dedb3%29.jpg http://www.lawyer.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Abortion-Law-Globally.jpg http://dilishapatel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/abortion-laws1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Abortion_Laws.svg (Blue means abortion legal on request, black means abortion is totally illegal, grey means no data, and the others mean abortion legal for certain reasons.)

The first 3 are the first 3 results for a world abortion legality map on Bing Images for "abortion map", the fourth is from Wikipedia.

As you can see, they correlate accurately enough, and the few differences (most notably Ivory Coast, Mali, and Nigeria) are probably due to changes in laws (the laws of nations change, remember) or a difference in interpretation.

First point, if the Pope is smarter than Slovenians on account that he said abortion is bad and Slovenia legalized abortion, then you're also dumber than the Pope, because Italy also legalized abortion on request. And if Italians hate Slovenia because Slovenia legalized abortion, then Italians should hate all but seven of the world's nations for legalizing abortion.

Second point, there are clearly more reasons than "the mother doesn't want him/her", or at least rational reasons to the mother not wanting him/her, making abortion even less murder.

Third point, if the life of the baby matters so much for you, then why does the life of the mother matter so little? You can clearly see a lot of countries legalize abortion to preserve the mother's life and health. You called abortion "fucked up in the head", "barbaric and horrifying", and "murder" (which I have disproved), so I guess it's not "fucked up in the head" and "barbaric and horrifying" if the mother dies, becomes terribly injured, traumatized, or goes insane (or worse) so the baby can live? Or possibly still die if they're dependent on their mother?

Also what about children of incest or those who have genetic faults? Do you want to not only condemn a child to a genetically dysfunctional life, but their parents or caregivers to have to put up with these children? Sure, you might be willing and able to help, but do you think there is enough people on this planet who are both willing and able to help all of them?

Of course I object to abortion just because the baby happens to be male or female or some other bullshit, but if the fetus has a problem that will seriously affect him/her negatively then I support aborting the baby. Still, it's not my responsibility to make the choice. I'm more mixed regarding abortion to try to control population, because overpopulation is a real problem, but that should be the last-ditch choice (before mass killing).